(Preceded by discussion on the press release) "WC" indicates Wendy Connors asking the questions.
WC: The next day Roger Ramey and Dubose, his aide, comes to Roswell. As you have told me in previous interviews, you all gathered in the conference room—Blanchard was there, Ramey, Dubose, you, and several others—but you have never gone into detail on what was discussed, other than you did tell me that General Ramey wanted this thing stopped. And the last time we talked, when I asked you if this was a real flying saucer, if this was a real body, you said yes, that Roger Ramey lied, it was not a weather balloon. Do you remember what the discussion was in the conference room? Was Ramey upset with Colonel Blanchard? Or did they just kind of put all their heads together and say this is the best way to put the stop to this information?
Haut: I wasn’t privy to a lot of the information that went back and forth between Ramey and Blanchard. I would assume that when they got together they discussed this, with nobody else around, and decided that the best way to do that is this. Let’s get the news media in here and let’s just tell them our side of it, and let it go at that.
WC: Let me get back to you’re all in the conference room, and Ramey’s there, Dubose is there, obviously Colonel Blanchard had been talking on the phone to General Ramey over that evening, and the next day Ramey and Dubose show up, and as you said, you were all in the conference room. Was it in the conference room that Ramey decided to deny that this was a flying disc and it was a weather balloon? Was the cover story done there in the conference room?
Haut: The fact that I was the public relations officer and involved with this, I felt that I had to pay a lot of attention. When you’re a first lieutenant and here’s a general here, and there’s a couple of colonels there, and lieutenant colonels over there, and you’re sitting here, the only field grade officer, you kinda feel about that big!
WC: Well, I can understand that, but I want to get inside you. I think if I was the PIO and Colonel Blanchard had told me to release this story, and then all of a sudden here are the big boys with stars on their shoulders showing up, you’re all in the conference room, and you know that you’re going to have to pay attention, just like you said, to what they’re saying and what they want because the public relations part that comes from it is going to come back on you and you’re the one who’s going to have to be answering the questions, through the media. Not much came, because obviously, as we know from history, it was pretty much dropped at that point. But you had to be prepared for that. So that’s what I’m asking and assuming that that there is where, in the conference room, you’re all in there, and Ramey is discussing this is how we’re going to kind of keep this very quiet so that higher authority can handle it. Is that what happened?
Haut: Pretty much so. I couldn’t find anything to nitpick on it.
WC: When I was here a few months ago, when the French film crew was here, where we talked about the saucer itself, the disc, the flying disc itself, and the body. At that time you told me that you had not observed the body up close, that you were…you felt you were about 20 feet away from it, that the body was partially covered with a tarp, and it was next to the disc, the saucer itself. I have two questions. One, was the disc in so many different pieces or was it pretty much all together, but maybe broken in pieces? When you observed the disc, what did it look like?
Haut: I would venture a guess that probably a diameter of somewhere around 25 feet.
WC: But even though you didn’t go right up to the body, I’m assuming from what you told me, as you weren’t close enough to smell the body, but that you were probably, to the best of your recollection, you were within approximately 20 feet of the body, which isn’t really not that great of a distance. There’s two parts to this question. One, there was only one body? What did that body look like?
Haut: It was a relatively small body, comparable to ah, oh maybe a eleven-year-old, ten or eleven-year-old child. It was pretty well beat up.
WC: To make sure I’ve got this from a historical perspective, this is just two point-blank questions. First, you’re saying that the recovery of the body, there was only one?
Haut: (Long pause) I don’t think so. (pause) I thought there were several bodies.
WC: When you saw the body in the hangar partially covered with the tarp, you only saw the one.
WC: OK. Now my next point-blank question is, and you had already told me this before, that, and you looked right at me and you said, “Hey, Roger Ramey lied. This was no weather balloon!” And you were very implicit about that. From the best of your recollection, they had a disc. And maybe it was in several pieces, but altogether laying there was approximately 20, 25 feet in diameter. This was not scattered from pillar to post. They had instrumentation. They really had a disc!
Haut: That’s my remembrance.
WC: But overall, you’re very comfortable with you saw one body and this disc object.
WC: That you know. There’s no question in your mind. That’s fine.
(Goes on to asking questions about knowing Major Jesse Marcel. Goes into how they lived in town as neighbors, sometimes rode to the base together, but didn't ever discuss the matter.)
Walter Haut, the Roswell base public information officer in 1947 and the one to put out an official press release about the military having a "flying disc" in their possession, had a 2002 affidavit in which he discussed seeing small alien bodies and a craft in a base hangar after putting out the press release.
However, two years before this, Haut also had a videotaped interview with Wendy Connors and Dennis Balthauser in which he also briefly went into these points. Like the affidavit, the contents of the interview were not to be released until after his death.
Below is a transcript of the relevant portion of the interview. You'll notice Connors pushing the reluctant Haut to talk about it on-the-record after previously discussing this privately with her and also with a French film company. In addition, Haut also admits that Eighth Air Force commander Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff Colonel Thomas Dubose had both come in from headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas, to discuss what was to be done at a conference of senior staff in Roswell, which Haut attended. This was also in Haut's affidavit. According to Haut, Ramey wanted the information to the public stopped and a cover-up was put into place.
However, there are some important differences between the affidavit and what Haut admits to in the interview:
- Haut admits to seeing only one body in the interview, though saying he was under the impression that there were several. In the affidavit, it states he saw several bodies under a tarp, with just their heads extending beyond the tarp.
- In both Haut talks about the body size being about that of a 10 or 11-year-old child. In the interview, Haut added the detail that the body he saw looked "pretty well beat up".
- In both Haut admits to seeing a craft, but in the interview he speaks of it being roughly 25 feet in diameter, while in the affidavit it was more of an egg shape and only about 12-15 feet in length, less wide, and about 6 feet high, or maybe about half the size..
The differences may stem in part to the obvious reluctance of Haut to discuss these details in the interview as he lets Connors do most of the talking. Haut mostly tacitly agrees with Connor's statements. E.g., when Connors asks Haut if the weather balloon cover story was decided in the conference room by Ramey, Haut never directly answers her question instead talks about feeling uncomfortable in a room full of high officers. After Connors further discusses the outlines of how she understood the cover-up was put into place and then asks him if that is indeed what happened, Haut only responds, "Pretty much so. I couldn’t find anything to nitpick on it." When later asked whether the craft was intact or in several pieces, Haut again never directly responds. All he will admit to when pushed was that there was a craft there and then gives a size, but no other details.
Another complication is that the affidavit was not written directly by Haut but prepared by Don Schmitt, based on what Schmitt says Haut had told both him and Tom Carey privately over the years. (see 7/22/07 Paracast interview with Schmitt and Carey). Again according to Schmitt, the affidavit was left with Haut and family. Haut later read through the prepared affidavit several times with neither Schmitt nor Carey present, and signed off on the contents, after getting medical clearance from a doctor of being of sound mind. It could be that Haut felt the details in the affidavit were "close enough", or as he said to Connors, "I couldn’t find anything to nitpick on it", even if they weren't exactly what he would himself have written."
Other differences may stem from misunderstandings that were never fully clarified. E.g., perhaps Haut got a good look at only one body which was more uncovered that the others. Thus he thought were more bodies but saw only one for sure.
A craft size difference might conceivably be explained by the craft being broken up somewhat (as Connors tries to get Haut to comment on, but doesn't). So the fully intact size might have been closer to 25 feet, whereas the largest portion would have been closer to the smaller size described in the affidavit.
It is interesting in this regard that General Ramey himself in 1947 was quoted by the press saying that the "disc" might have been 20-25 feet across if reconstructed.
Another witness to the object, Richard Talbert, then a Roswell paperboy, saw it being transported through the center of town on a flatbed truck covered with a tarp, as did some other witnesses. However, Talbert added that the tarp momentarily lifted up and he caught a glimpse of the object underneath. He gave a very similar description as in the Haut affidavit of an ovoid object about 12 feet long, but added that it appeared to be damaged and cut off at one end, perhaps suggesting a larger intact craft.